Murnatan
Community => Discussion => Topic started by: Lancer on November 17, 2012, 04:21:39 PM
-
Hello Tremulous fan's, lovers and players.
One thing that "bugs" me, is this sentence:
Create in-game objects and make
REAL MONEY!
Ofcourse, i know rotacak wants to gain some income with this game as it's not open-source and being developed with a AAA engine (UDK - Royalty's, Unity - Royalty's when you hit $100,000 mark, and others that i don't know).
So the thing is, how would this work?
Map creation?
Weapon/Alien creation?
But how will this system works, as nobody can just take his code, not like opensource, and make their own mods and/or adjustments.
As it will work with a client and a server, NOT opensource.
How will the team pay people for things that they can't access easily?
And what will rotacak do to secure a stable income?
Will he make weapons for a period of time like:
Buy this Super Rifle for:
- $1 - 7 days
- $1.5 - 14 days
- $1.75 - 31 days
Or will it a one time payment?
Or will he rent away servers, premium packages (cosmetic).
For myself, i sure want to pay for a tremulous game, as long it doesn't give unfair advantages to wealthy people.
I don't want to pump €500 into a game, and still people are getting better bonuses because they've donated $1,500 into it.
Just some thoughts for now, discuss and i will add more questions to this list later on :)!
~Lancer/Reaper
-
My first impression was that it would be something similar to Team Fortress 2. There people create hats, weapons and other content, and Valve sometimes picks high quality items and sells them ( they aren't really better than what you can have for free, mostly cosmetic stuff ) and the artist gets a portion of the profit. Steam workshop has support for this kind of things as far as I know, though I don't know if this game is headed that way. This was my speculation.
-
My first impression was that it would be something similar to Team Fortress 2. There people create hats, weapons and other content, and Valve sometimes picks high quality items and sells them ( they aren't really better than what you can have for free, mostly cosmetic stuff ) and the artist gets a portion of the profit. Steam workshop has support for this kind of things as far as I know, though I don't know if this game is headed that way. This was my speculation.
Thanks for adding your input into this Iltavuo.
If rotacak and his team would do something like this (pure cosmetic), then i would be okay with it.
-
And what will rotacak do to secure a stable income?
Whatever he does, he has right to because it HIS company that develops the game. Understand that, as much as Rota likes Trem, ultimately this is a business venture and making money is on par here with delivering good product. Welcome to the real world.
For myself, i sure want to pay for a tremulous game
F1.
as long it doesn't give unfair advantages to wealthy people.
Agreed. "Hey Cant_Aim_Noob, pay 20$ and you get this chaigun-lucifer cannon" - mixing these people with "normal" players would be very unfair.
Perhaps if some kind of "premium stuff" will be implemented AND if it would be a "gameplay changing" stuff, it could be also acquired by having actual skill.
-
And what will rotacak do to secure a stable income?
Whatever he does, he has right to because it HIS company that develops the game. Understand that, as much as Rota likes Trem, ultimately this is a business venture and making money is on par here with delivering good product. Welcome to the real world.
For myself, i sure want to pay for a tremulous game
F1.
as long it doesn't give unfair advantages to wealthy people.
Agreed. "Hey Cant_Aim_Noob, pay 20$ and you get this chaigun-lucifer cannon" - mixing these people with "normal" players would be very unfair.
Perhaps if some kind of "premium stuff" will be implemented AND if it would be a "gameplay changing" stuff, it could be also acquired by having actual skill.
^This
Idc if a "level or tier 1" player spend 20 bucks in it, when i'm a level 15 with the same weapons/ability's or whatever bought with that 20 dollars.
Or if i'm that level 1, and a level 15 guy bought all stuff.
Gives me more motivation to become better =].
-
Going by what was said on the trem.net thread, I think it's more custom maps and such. So if i make a map, I could sell it for money. Nothing that will effect gameplay.
To be honest I think it's a bad idea. Perhaps things like TF2 hats could work, but asking people to pay for maps will just severely limit how many people will play your map, seeing as everyone would need to have bought the map for everyone to play.
-
You will be able to create graphics, skins, maps etc. then upload it and set your own price for permanent ownership or time limited (it can be free). And anyone can buy/download it.
These items will be in two categories - official (from us or approved) and unofficial (from players). And server owners will choose what they will allow to have on server, because players can create crazy things, that are not suits game.
If you buy anything from these things, then it will not make you stronger and give it to you no advantages. I not counting blue skin for jettard on blu sky like advantage :)
Youd don't need open source game for this kinds of "mods".
-
Going by what was said on the trem.net thread, I think it's more custom maps and such. So if i make a map, I could sell it for money. Nothing that will effect gameplay.
To be honest I think it's a bad idea. Perhaps things like TF2 hats could work, but asking people to pay for maps will just severely limit how many people will play your map, seeing as everyone would need to have bought the map for everyone to play.
But rotacak's team could make a deal with you, and put it into a premium 'DLC' package with alot more maps, and you get your share?
Would that be better?
Something like a monthly fee, and you get all those things extra, or whatever.
-
To be honest I think it's a bad idea. Perhaps things like TF2 hats could work, but asking people to pay for maps will just severely limit how many people will play your map, seeing as everyone would need to have bought the map for everyone to play.
If you want to spread your map quickly, you still can release it for free.
-
There are some problems with TF2's F2P style stuff:
-Every server [including mod servers] must have updated models, info etc. which occurs like... once every week? Bah.
-Every client " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " "
-People with access to money get a fair advantage [i.e. bigger inventory]
-[Steam] You can't add people as friends, you can't do this, you cant do that blah blah until you pay at least a cent. I'd rather contribute to number of players and increase the game's popularity rather than pay money and make the devs rich.
Also, one of the main points that i do like about the F2P style TF has:
-If you can't spend money [like me and lots of other people, like half the population of TF] you still can "accidentally" earn new weapons and stuff.
Honestly, if this game involves constant updates, involves money to play some games and to rent/earn weapons, i'd rather stick with unv. with their modified gameplay.
-
You will be able to create graphics, skins, maps etc. then upload it and set your own price for permanent ownership or time limited (it can be free). And anyone can buy/download it.
These items will be in two categories - official (from us or approved) and unofficial (from players). And server owners will choose what they will allow to have on server, because players can create crazy things, that are not suits game.
If you buy anything from these things, then it will not make you stronger and give it to you no advantages. I not counting blue skin for jettard on blu sky like advantage :)
Youd don't need open source game for this kinds of "mods".
The "Official" Items you are talking about, are we need to pay for them...?
-
So I have to buy the game and then I will be like premium user (no pirated version of game) but I will be killed by some noob with sniper rifle which he bought? (pay2win sux) Im sure many people will not buy this game if it will be such thing in this game. Tremulous 1.1, 1.2 only skills and luck decided who killed who. In this game, bought items :( saddens me. I know you need cash to pay your people, but as I wrote many people will decide whether to buy or not this game: if it's pay2win or just onetime-pay.
Pay2Win and buyable games are not modern, watch for example Guild Wars 2. If you keep both of them it won't be very good for market. But anyway it's your thing, I just want to help you.
-
Whatever payment model Rota decides upon, I really wish him a commercial success. A big one.
-
-Every server [including mod servers] must have updated models, info etc. which occurs like... once every week? Bah.
-Every client " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " "
It will be synchronized at beginning of every map. And you can turn off all these additional things on client, or on your server, if you don't like it.
pay money and make the devs rich.
You see only that we want to be rich. You don't see that we have to spend few milions CZK, work two years, then gather money back and then still pay for servers and another work due to updates etc. If you want everything free, then it will die like T1, because you simply cannot work for free forever.
-If you can't spend money [like me and lots of other people, like half the population of TF] you still can "accidentally" earn new weapons and stuff.
First of all, you don't need to spend any additional money in game. And you can earn all free items.
The "Official" Items you are talking about, are we need to pay for them...?
Some of them will be free, some no.
pay2win sux
There will not be pay2win. You cannot buy anything (for money) that make you stronger.
-
Soo.... if i want play i must pay for it?
-
Soo.... if i want play i must pay for it?
ye
-
Soo.... if i want play i must pay for it?
Yes, problem?
Otherwise stick to dying tremulous, this game will be so much better.
-
Soo.... if i want play i must pay for it?
You must just buy game.
-
-facepalm-
Dear Rotacak:
Please spam everyone's PM boxes with the entire contents of this thread, and then make it pop up for every page refresh.
-
Oh ,and how many i need to pay?
-
That will be announced later.
-
Oh now i know all (grangers cute) ;)
-
Trem2 release at about 2014... Perhaps the graphics will, by then, be rather outdated, but I hope that the game will be affordable then and not have a startingprice of 30USD or similar. Nonetheless I do hope that this game has quite some changes and does not become somethinglike CoD (with aliens and buildings) or such... I really did like the matter of facts that it won't matter how much you play the game that actually only your skill counts and neither your wallet nor your gametime. That is... You unlock everything you need within the map and not within the game itself
a.k.a. No rank system etc....
it does sound drastic and it might get boring, but granting ranks and then enabling people to purchase advantages isn't going to help a lot. That could mean that I can let about anybody play using my nick and then start the game myself with a lvl 30 Character or similar.
-
Perhaps the graphics will, by then, be rather outdated,
It is reasonable to assume that devs are planning for the future and not for now.
affordable
This is relative.
I do hope that this game has quite some changes
Me too. I have my hopes that "this and that" will be implemented, but ultimately Rota decides, not the "Best top 20 Rcz players"
OTOH: we can mod it always.
-
You must just buy game.
...
That will be announced later. [price]
This is going to throw me off wanting this game due to prices. Honestly, no matter how good a game is, if it costs money, i won't get it. I've never bought a game in my life and can't use money online either.
-
can't use money online either.
It's second decade of 21st century. Get your stuff together kid.
-
OTOH: we can mod it always.
Or....not. It's not open-source.
-
OTOH: we can mod it always.
Or....not. It's not open-source.
Read FAQ -.-
-
If you set price to.. let's say.. about 15 euros and try to get it on steam, there will be many people playing it :) I bought a game called Chivalry: Medieval Warfare, it cost 18 euros, it's a new game running on unreal engine 3, there was a HL2 mod called Age of Chivalry before it.. it's almost the same case. There are so many people playing it, it's awesome.
-
as of 2009, Steam had a 70% share of the digital distribution market for video games.
In early 2011, Forbes reported that Steam sales constituted 50 to 70% of the $4 billion market for downloaded PC games
(Natural Selection 2) sold 144,000 copies in its first week, earning over $1 million.
Keep cool people it's gonna be fine, we're gonna have a LOT of people playing T2.
1. Read the statistics.
2. On top of this add a little SEO imagination about "games like NS2". What's gonna pop up? Well, T2 is gonna pop up. Why is T2 gonna pop up? Well, there are no other "games like NS2" other than T2. :D
BTW: How they come up with "over 1M" is beyond me since 144 000 x 22eur per cheapest copy=3mils. Well 3 is over 1, but meh ;/
-
To be honest,
i hate buying add-ons. I would rather like if every feature for both humans and aliens were free.
-
You could certainly pay with your almost-useless-spam-posts. :)
-
To be honest,
i hate buying add-ons. I would rather like if every feature for both humans and aliens were free.
Depends, because i want a granger skin with a sombrero, i would pay for it :D
(http://www.happy-party.nl/images/Pinata%20Sombrero.jpg)
-
To be honest,
i hate buying add-ons. I would rather like if every feature for both humans and aliens were free.
Depends, because i want a granger skin with a sombrero, i would pay for it :D
(http://www.happy-party.nl/images/Pinata%20Sombrero.jpg)
I love the hat :P
-
I see my first mod...
EL SPANYOLA!
Grangers with sombreros and humans with mustachee-o's! Basilisk shaped like piñatas! Maracas for grenades! :D
-
I see my first mod...
EL SPANYOLA!
Grangers with sombreros and humans with mustachee-o's! Basilisk shaped like piñatas! Maracas for grenades! :D
lol, SPANISH STYLE
that would look pretty funny. They should do that for special occasions :P
-
I see my first mod...
EL SPANYOLA!
Grangers with sombreros and humans with mustachee-o's! Basilisk shaped like piñatas! Maracas for grenades! :D
lol, SPANISH STYLE
that would look pretty funny. They should do that for special occasions :P
Or just make a mod for it, it would be awesome :D
WILD WEST TREM STYLE
-
I see my first mod...
EL SPANYOLA!
Grangers with sombreros and humans with mustachee-o's! Basilisk shaped like piñatas! Maracas for grenades! :D
lol, SPANISH STYLE
that would look pretty funny. They should do that for special occasions :P
Or just make a mod for it, it would be awesome :D
WILD WEST TREM STYLE
One thing is for sure...We need that hat in the game on special occasions :P
-
I see my first mod...
EL SPANYOLA!
Grangers with sombreros and humans with mustachee-o's! Basilisk shaped like piñatas! Maracas for grenades! :D
lol, SPANISH STYLE
that would look pretty funny. They should do that for special occasions :P
Or just make a mod for it, it would be awesome :D
WILD WEST TREM STYLE
Maybe make a Netherlands mod? Human footsteps go "clack clack clack" because of their wooden shoes? :D :D :D
-
I see my first mod...
EL SPANYOLA!
Grangers with sombreros and humans with mustachee-o's! Basilisk shaped like piñatas! Maracas for grenades! :D
lol, SPANISH STYLE
that would look pretty funny. They should do that for special occasions :P
Or just make a mod for it, it would be awesome :D
WILD WEST TREM STYLE
Maybe make a Netherlands mod? Human footsteps go "clack clack clack" because of their wooden shoes? :D :D :D
Okay, now you've done it.
If this game ever going to be published, you will get your DGM - Dutch Gunther Mod.
Be prepared.
-
(Natural Selection 2) sold 144,000 copies in its first week, earning over $1 million.
Keep cool people it's gonna be fine, we're gonna have a LOT of people playing T2.
1. Read the statistics.
2. On top of this add a little SEO imagination about "games like NS2". What's gonna pop up? Well, T2 is gonna pop up. Why is T2 gonna pop up? Well, there are no other "games like NS2" other than T2. :D
1. As far as i know, most NS2-past/current players that tried unvanquished says unvanquished is a copy and ragequit considering how 'shit' the graphics were, and same with tremulous. Tremulous2 is basically tremulous upgraded, so i don't think this is going to help. Even half of the KoR community has already left to NS2 due to how popular it is.
2. Apart from what I said above, there are the existances of:
Tremulous (1), Gloom, Unv
And considering out of these four games, Unv will probably do the best in the future because trem 1 will be dead by then, gloom's already dead, and unv's growing fast. Trem2 will probably grow fast, but that isn't confirmed yet. We currently only have assets and plans and probably minor work in the background that the community doesn't know.
-
I don't really think Rota is aiming T2 to please the CURRENT 1.1/1.2 community ONLY. I think his idea is to make Trem popular with people that didn't know it existed.
How many regular players does 1.2 have now? 200? With proper T2 gameplay and marketing we can easily have +/- 10 000 players. It's not UNREALISTIC to achieve that. Not that hard either.
-
+/- 10 000 players. It's not UNREALISTIC to achieve that.
Last time i checked, NS2 had daily players of about 5 500 only as one of the top ten games played on steam. Either i read wrong or something's really wrong here.
-
NS2 had daily players of about 5 500 only as one of the top ten games played on steam. Either i read wrong or something's really wrong here.
Yeah I agree, I forgot the clarification part:
1. 10 000 regular players who play few times a week.
2. 10 000 copies is achievable in 2-4 months with proper hype around the launch.
5500 players per DAY would be awesome, but take into account that a "5000 per day" server costs is probably in thousands $/month range.
-
NS2 had daily players of about 5 500 only as one of the top ten games played on steam. Either i read wrong or something's really wrong here.
Yeah I agree, I forgot the clarification part:
1. 10 000 regular players who play few times a week.
2. 10 000 copies is achievable in 2-4 months with proper hype around the launch.
5500 players per DAY would be awesome, but take into account that a "5000 per day" server costs is probably in thousands $/month range.
But with new extremely customizable servers, this won't be a problem, since almost anyone can make anything they want.
-
Paying money for maps would be problematic because we'll just have what he had in 1.1:
ATCS ALL DAY EVERY DAY! <3
But seriously speaking, why not make it so that servers pay the map makers to have the map on the server, not the player. That way, good map makers can still get paid, because server owners will want their map on their server. And servers with more maps will naturally attract more players, so this would definitely create opportunities for map designers. As result, we would get more maps of better quality as a community.
-
But with new extremely customizable servers, this won't be a problem, since almost anyone can make anything they want.
Nope. "Customizable" in your sense is probably just things like pre-made command variables like [ill make one up:] g_rifle_dmg "5" up to "20"
But when i see "customizable" in my sense, i think of being able to edit the source code and implement features like what i have done to my lolards 1.1 mod. Some of them are the dynamic luci speeds, "more realistic" turret turning, battery decay for painsaw while it is active [not firing][Painsaw actually has ammunition and it drains 1 per second, has a total ammunition of 1000 if using a battery pack, uses about 18 per second if it is being used] and shitloads more.
Sadly this is going to be a closed source project hence "customizing" for me is a long gone dream [rather impossible]
-
Paying money for maps would be problematic because we'll just have what he had in 1.1:
ATCS ALL DAY EVERY DAY! <3
But seriously speaking, why not make it so that servers pay the map makers to have the map on the server, not the player. That way, good map makers can still get paid, because server owners will want their map on their server. And servers with more maps will naturally attract more players, so this would definitely create opportunities for map designers. As result, we would get more maps of better quality as a community.
With game will be released more maps that only new ATCS :)
Paying for maps - depends on what map maker will choose (free/players will pay/servers will pay). Moreover, in case of "servers will pay", anyone will be able to buy map for any server, not just server owner.
-
Paying money for maps would be problematic because we'll just have what he had in 1.1:
ATCS ALL DAY EVERY DAY! <3
But seriously speaking, why not make it so that servers pay the map makers to have the map on the server, not the player. That way, good map makers can still get paid, because server owners will want their map on their server. And servers with more maps will naturally attract more players, so this would definitely create opportunities for map designers. As result, we would get more maps of better quality as a community.
With game will be released more maps that only new ATCS :)
Paying for maps - depends on what map maker will choose (free/players will pay/servers will pay). Moreover, in case of "servers will pay", anyone will be able to buy map for any server, not just server owner.
Some day you'll have to make that tough choice...or everyone just forget the "pay to play specific map" crap. We already will pay upwards of $30 for this, why turn it into a money-grubbing game where all map-makers want cash?
-
Some day you'll have to make that tough choice...or everyone just forget the "pay to play specific map" crap. We already will pay upwards of $30 for this, why turn it into a money-grubbing game where all map-makers want cash?
That depends on map makers. You will be able to create something too: create -> sell -> gain money -> buy map. Without spending real money.
There will be more content, if you can make money with it. Not like now in old tremulous, where we waiting forever for new version of nintendo land :)
-
I still think most players will make maps for free, even though they'll have a chance to sell it.
-
I still think most players will make maps for free, even though they'll have a chance to sell it.
No problem :)
-
Any idea if the player will be able to set the going price for his or her maps in the content store?
Also, if the devs will earn a percentage of player revenues, what percentage will that be? Probably around 10~25%?
Finally, will each seller have a store 'profile', where other players will be able to see all of the seller's maps and content, as well as some personalized text or banners?
I know it's pretty early in the development to be asking these types of questions, but if you had anything in mind, I was just curious to see what the devs were thinking so far.
-
Any idea if the player will be able to set the going price for his or her maps in the content store?
Yes, player will set own price/free.
Also, if the devs will earn a percentage of player revenues, what percentage will that be? Probably around 10~25%?
Can't tell now, is too early. But yes, something around that.
Finally, will each seller have a store 'profile', where other players will be able to see all of the seller's maps and content, as well as some personalized text or banners?
Yes. Without "personalized text or banners" - what do you mean by that?
I know it's pretty early in the development to be asking these types of questions, but if you had anything in mind, I was just curious to see what the devs were thinking so far.
Keep asking :)
-
That depends on map makers. You will be able to create something too: create -> sell -> gain money -> buy map. Without spending real money.
There will be more content, if you can make money with it. Not like now in old tremulous, where we waiting forever for new version of nintendo land :)
1. I'll just do that then. But buying the game, well, that's another problem. We'll still have to buy from there unless somehow we manage to make a map before buying the actual game and gamepaks required to make the maps. It's a paradox in my opinion. Jump back in time to prevent your time jump by killing self.
2. I'm not to entirely sure about this, but that fish guy doesn't play tremulous anymore as far as i know. I don't think you should expect a new nintendo land, as you would with gmotw's skybox 005.