Murnatan
Community => Suggestions, ideas => Topic started by: ^3Pikachu on May 21, 2013, 01:22:23 AM
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Just jotting down some thoughts, everyone is free to add (and disagree).
Steep learning curve...
Things that would help: communicate hits better to the player. In Trem it's often difficult to see wether you hit something or not. Also no indication wether you hit head or torso etc... might feel unfair and frustrate the player. We see this often enough in online matches, and I think it's a shortcoming. Solution would be to have more and/or better visual and audio cues. Maybe the hud should display this, maybe ingame effects should be more clearly.
Speed: I like the fast pace of the game, but that can give problems for online play when pings are high. Trem is very fast paced, easy to forget how fast the game is. I showed it to some friends and they were like whoa how do you know where you're going at this speed?. Slowing it down a little might not be bad, especially for online play where roundtrip ping is important (melee depends on fast reflexes, etc).
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Steep learning curve...
Relatively easy compared to FreeAllegiance. Rather hard for todays nabs who have "no shootme pls I builder " attitude.
Things that would help: communicate hits better to the player.
F1
might not be bad, especially for online play where roundtrip ping is important (melee depends on fast reflexes, etc)
1. Sure the lower ping, the easier to chomp.
2. Slowing the game isn't necessary because of "roundtrip ping". If one can play Q3 online with 100-150 ping, Trem will be even easier as it is much slower than Q3. Not to even mention Q1.
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Writing off people as nabs isn't going to help you much with making your game :P
I don't really agree with the Q3 comparison (Q1 netplay feels like swimming through mud on speed, I can't stand it), the core gameplay is very different and there is no melee aspect. Try pouncing around with a goon or chomping vs Q3 players, you'd get the same set of problems. You can still get chomped for the other side of the room due to differences in client and server states. You also get shot around corners all the time because of the large lag compensation needed to have the game run smooth over net play. For online melee the melee needs to have an element of tactics over twitch reactions you can get away with over lan or splitscreen. Not to mention the discrepancy between renderer and gamestate. If the game were a bit slower the tactics would become more essential. When does the human reload? Chomping around corners would be less of a guesswork. Rifling dretches would be less a roll of the dice. Trem core gameplay is great, but it was not made with latency in mind. I think lag is one of the most annoying things in Trem, it's much more visible than in other games even with lower pings. Also the stakes tend to be higher. When you've invested in credits or evos it sucks dying because of lag. Then again maybe I'm just wrong and it would make the game less fun? Needs testing.
Other issues:
Wallwalking is too disorienting. Not to mention there's too much crap on the average wall, often without clipping considerations. It's a shame because wallwalking is really usefull on the maps that are built with it in mind.
Melee isn't a area attack, this is just fundamentally counter intuitive. You have aliens with big fang and teeth but the attacks are registered as a line from the center of the screen. Damage done should be dependent on aiming, the more precise the aim the more damage, it shouldn't be a binary hit/no hit thing. It should slash across the screen and not be like firing a bullet. Legend of Grimrock has a cool slashing effect that I think would work well for Trem.
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If the game were a bit slower the tactics would become more essential. When does the human reload? Chomping around corners would be less of a guesswork. Rifling dretches would be less a roll of the dice. Trem core gameplay is great, but it was not made with latency in mind.
Yeah ok, I get it now, that makes a lot of sense.
Also the stakes tend to be higher. When you've invested in credits or evos it sucks dying because of lag.
For the average player (like me) it wouldn't make a noticeable difference. For people like Headhunter or Vriess it would. Pro player takes advantage of lower ping, where an average player doesn't even realize he has some miniscule advantage. I mean lag as over 150 ping. Not a lag where your screen freezes or someone warps. I agreee that "lag as an advantage" should be minimalized, but than again lower pings benefit mostly the good players.
Melee isn't a area attack, this is just fundamentally counter intuitive. You have aliens with big fang and teeth but the attacks are registered as a line from the center of the screen. Damage done should be dependent on aiming, the more precise the aim the more damage, it shouldn't be a binary hit/no hit thing. It should slash across the screen and not be like firing a bullet.
F1 as an alternative/addition to current legs/torso/head.
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It would be cool if turrets wouldn't have pinpoint precision aim, so as an alien you could see bullets impact around you, (ricochets and puff clouds) This would be helpful when multiple turrets are firing, the visuals would indicate how much turrets are/were firing at you. It could be a purely visual thing though, might be annoying when turrets shoot humans in the line of fire.
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That's an interesting idea with the turrets, and could help with larger maps...
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Speed movement should be definitely similar to Trem, thats are things that making this game different from Battlefield for example. Anyway, speed change should not be big problem for modders.
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I agree, the speed of the game should absolutely not be reduced.
One of the things that set 1.1 apart from others was it's speed [and terrible graphics XD]. It took lots of practice and skill to hit anything in that game, and I believe this one should be no different.
Murnatan is intended to be a modern remake of the old game with better graphics and physics technology, sounds, visuals, etc. While this is definitely an opportunity to fix certain things that the original devs were too lazy and underpaid to be bothered with, I at least still want to keep this game reasonably vanilla when it comes to gameflow dynamics.
The brilliance of this game is the fact that we can request certain developer mods if we want a different version of gameplay once the core game is released.
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It would be cool if turrets wouldn't have pinpoint precision aim
In my trem 1.1 mod, my turrets actually kinda aim behind so if you travel fast enough that the turret can aim while pinpoint shooting you, it will continuously try to adjust while firing at the same time, making a delay effect where it misses ~60% of the time, depending on your speed.
In other words, it has 3 aiming speeds, and it tries to constantly switch between two of them:
fastest - doesn't shoot at all
Moderate - Aiming and shooting
Slowest - Very accurate, but sucks against fast targets.
In my opinion, it's sort of a mix of 1.1 and gpp style when building layouts, only that dodging left and right doesn't really work.
One of the things that set 1.1 apart from others was it's speed
What got people into quake I wonder...
Btw, for the players to have equivalent speed towards their animation, g_speed becomes roughly 172-173 (Trial and error, I can't really determine more accurate) but the gameplay becomes horribly bias.
For example, humans are so overpowered when you're about 10 meters apart, however aliens are soo overpowered when they're closer than that because humans struggle to even dodge due to their hitbox sizes (30x30x54, or 1x1x1.8 meters, or 3x3x6 foot) but then again, a dretch is 30^3 and a tyrant is like what, 60x60x72? (Not so sure about this number, it's a guess)
Since this engine uses a different damage system, a lot of balancing will be required.
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It would be cool if turrets wouldn't have pinpoint precision aim
In my trem 1.1 mod, my turrets actually kinda aim behind so if you travel fast enough that the turret can aim while pinpoint shooting you, it will continuously try to adjust while firing at the same time, making a delay effect where it misses ~60% of the time, depending on your speed.
In other words, it has 3 aiming speeds, and it tries to constantly switch between two of them:
fastest - doesn't shoot at all
Moderate - Aiming and shooting
Slowest - Very accurate, but sucks against fast targets.
That's cool, is that mod on any server? I also thought of a system where turrets track movement and try to predict by extrapolating average motion vectors over a given timespan. So a cunning player would still be able to trick it. I personally like the strafing mechanic for taking down turrets, not sure how the game plays without it.