Murnatan
Official section => News => Topic started by: Rotacak on March 01, 2013, 03:04:20 PM
-
For those without facebook:
We are sorry to inform you, that Tremulous 2 Kickstarter is now subject of an intellectual property dispute and is currently unavailable.This process can last up to 10 days, the project’s funding and the countdown to its deadline have been stopped. It happened because creator of the original game Tim Angus reported our project for using the name "Tremulous" and due to the similarity of content. Therefore we decided to diassociate of the original game, make no tribute to the original creators at all and in fact, don't even consider it as a spiritual successor any more.
Your pledge on Kickstarter is currently still active. We are very thankful for your backup, however if you’d like to manage your pledge, we understand it.
Because we usually look at the bright side of things, we see that as a chance to get rid of the shackles of the original game and as a new possibility, that will allow us to make even more variable and complex game. We want to assure you, that the development of our project will not be affected by this and we are now commited to bring you a great game more than ever. The game, we would love to play. And we will!
But for now...
We need a brilliant new name for the game! Come visit our forum and tell us what name it should be.
-
Aww, thats a shame D: Does this mean that EVERYTHING has to change? (Aliens looks, names, human buildings, ect.
-
It is possible. Now we do not want to make a successor to that game anymore. We want to make our great game.
-
Aww, thats a shame D: Does this mean that EVERYTHING has to change? (Aliens looks, names, human buildings, ect.
Intellectual - Slavery can try to use law to make this game
- not use given name
- not use similar shapes of aliens
- not use similar game play types
- not use similar certain small ideas like "how to do lights" or "idea that game players can gather points from looking at ads in-game and then spend them on buying weapons"
Patents, copyrights, and other bad things.
Btw, I find this a bit amusing that you still support intellectual slavery (extorting money from players - e.g. you can send armed people to take him away to cage if he used his computer to make a copy of the game files).
So I wonder, how would T2 do in shoes of T1 developers then..
If I would make new game and call it Tremulous3 or Tremulous-Fire 2
If I would copy your game files and play them
If I would copy your game files and take money when I give it to other people
anyway T1 move was not nice
-
So I wonder, how would T2 do in shoes of T1 developers then..
If I would make new game and call it Tremulous3 or Tremulous-Fire 2
If I would copy your game files and play them
If I would copy your game files and take money when I give it to other people
anyway T1 move was not nice
We wanted to use Tremulous name, because we wanted to resurrect this game. With Tremulous name, we would lost any rights to that name (not even obtained them). So anybody still could make Tremulous 3, 4, 5. It was bad for us but I was so big fan of this game and I accepted it.
Now we will have brand new name and nobody will be able to make "ourname 2, 3, 4...".
About copying that files - if you talking about assets, we planned and still planning to allow distribute these assets for free and even commercial use under one condition; if you will use it, you have to add vissible link to our website/etc, something like "This project using object ABC from www.thisgame.com".
We need to discuss this more, it should not affect in-game shop in some negative way but this is the plan.
-
The devs name says it all:
Take away the "g" in Timbos full name, say outload, and the hidden truth is revealed.
(Truth aside)
If a new name is needed, even new models, it will take work of course but it is not as bad as it could've been under certain circumstances. Have we lost any player support? No. Those on this forum seem to still be loyal, and it's not like th idiots at the tremulous.net forums were going to pay for it anyway.
Is Kickstarter gone? No, only paused.
Do we still have our granger pillows? (Or moostices or spangnolds–whatever they'll be called)
Yes.
And it's very good for something like this to happen now in the developmental stages instead of right before it is published or when it had been selling for a while. This way now it can only change and go up from here. :)
-
The devs name says it all:
Take away the "g" in Timbos full name, say outload, and the hidden truth is revealed.
(Truth aside)
If a new name is needed, even new models, it will take work of course but it is not as bad as it could've been under certain circumstances. Have we lost any player support? No. Those on this forum seem to still be loyal, and it's not like th idiots at the tremulous.net forums were going to pay for it anyway.
Is Kickstarter gone? No, only paused.
Do we still have our granger pillows? (Or moostices or spangnolds–whatever they'll be called)
Yes.
And it's very good for something like this to happen now in the developmental stages instead of right before it is published or when it had been selling for a while. This way now it can only change and go up from here. :)
You can be sued (Rota) for using shape of granger and so on.
...
BUT
luckily the intellectual slavery laws of this game (as seen by 2013 USA, UK communists and other fascist legal systems) DO ALLOW to copy all this media and sell them, if you will just somehow attribute tremulous and maybe provide some kind of source. Talk to lawyer and get it resolved :)
-
So are the plushy grangers still rewards for the kickstarter? Or is rota going to sell them or something? As said above, its probably legal to do both. Probably.
-
That sucks but i have some ideas for new name of trem2: Grangerland, Grangerbattle, Grangerophilia, GlaxyGrangers, StarGrangers, SuperGrangers, Granger&Humans, ThePlanetOfGrangers, GrangersWorld, TimeOfGrangers, TheYearOfGrangers, TheAgeOfGrangers, Grangers&Gods, GrangerAnUnexpectedCamp, Granger$ReturnOfThePPNL, Granger&TwoRets, Granger&FellowShipOfTheJettard, Grangers&Evolusion, Granger&Revolusion, GrangerSelection, PowerGrangers, GrangerMan, GrangerMan. write in your post name of u favourite name XD
-
Just try to leave that words like "Granger" "-ous at end of word" "Trem"
We just want to forget about Trem and try to change everything.
-
We can use name and we can use shape as anyone else. But we do not want it anymore so it is does not matter. Interesting thing is, how creator of open source game (you know, words as "freedom" etc.) suddently wake up and start kicking around in this time, when there is no product, no profit, nothing. This is full of paradoxes, but it is good material for my book.
Kickstarter is paused but that means nothing. It would be unsuccessfull anyway. Reporting that had no sense.
I was cured from my fan blinding (from my view too late, but globally very early). Now we will create new game without adore to some other developers.
-
Soo we have little problem.
-
Soo we have little problem.
nah it wouldnt come to 50k $ anyways
-
How bout a combination of user's names?
Virotnalflokmegamedtravellingmechepical Gunmedic?
Okay that was a joke, but there are possibilities. You might never know, rotingnalfcake might be a good one
-
You asked Timbo about using the name 'Tremulous' and got a 'No, create your own game'. You went on ahead anyway and tried to make money with it, which is probably the reason Timbo reported your Kickstarter project.
Don't go cry about how 'suddenly' Timbo woke up to the fact that Tremulous 2 exists. I think what Timbo did was nothing more than give you the time you need in order to change the project's name and art assets.
The fact that a game is 'open-source' can mean very different thing for very different games. Just look at how open-source the Quake engine is, but not its name nor its art assets (textures, sounds, whatever). While Tremulous' code may be licensed under the GPL, Tremulous' name and art assets surely aren't.
Just stop hating on Timbo for not giving you the answer you desired, thank him for the fact that he lead the team that created Tremulous and take all your experience in and love for Tremulous towards a new, original game. Just like Timbo did when he was a big fan of Gloom and started the development on Tremulous.
Oh, and good luck with writing about Timbo in your book. That's probably more recognition than he ever recieved for Tremulous.
This message is unknown to and not endorsed by Timbo and/or DarkLegion
-
How about the name AAA (Against Alien Apoclypse) there is no such game called this and it would fit the game perfectly.
-
I think its a good idea to change the name, maybe some of the developers will start working on a Tremulous 2 one day, maybe. It would be a bummer to make a sequel to your own game and find out that someone else has taken the name for it. On the other hand, don't change the models. Tremulous is open source, so they can't get you for a patent violation (i.e. granger), because it isn't patented.
-
Lava Croft:
I asked him about name and got no reply probably because of screwed sourceforge or some spamfilter. Name is nothing, Tremulous does not have anywhere sleeping big community.
About Kickstarter:
You and all other haters should realize few things.
Kickstarter had only 2 % complete - no success anyway.
Try to divide $50 000 (lowered by 10+ % fees etc) between team members for 2 years of work and then tell me how rich we would be.
Try to notice that we wanted to spend 5 % from our profit to other projects and support them.
I do not crying, I am angry because of that behavior. I loved trem and I wanted to ressurect it, play again that game and make it even better. But you (haters and probably developers) only see: "EVIL MONEY!", "HE WANT TO USE NAME TO EARN MONEY" (absolutely nonsense, not true and even not possible) and that blocked your minds. On the other hand most of fans see different things "GAME WILL BE BACK!", "I WILL BE ABLE TO PLAY BETTER TREM AGAIN!".
Yes, opensource definitely mean different things. And our game will prove that even closed source game can be more free and open than these "opensource".
Just stop hating on Timbo for not giving you the answer you desired, thank him for the fact that he lead the team that created Tremulous
I do not hate him for not allowing T2 name. I hate him for his behavior "no, just stop". I would expect atleast something like "this can be problem, but we can solve it when you will do this...".
thank him for the fact that he lead the team that created Tremulous
You should notice, that we used this sentence "T2 is spiritual successor to T1" which saying "we are not original developers and we do not want to parasite on that game under different hidden name", we gived up chance to have trademark, we linked T1 from our site and we had thanks to the original team on our team page. But you cannot see that, because you have big sign "EVIL MONEY" before your face.
Book. I do not writing about Timbo because I want to do some stupid nonsense revenge as deconners doing in game. I writing about everything what happen.
This message is unknown to and not endorsed by Timbo and/or DarkLegion
In that case I do not understand why you react.
-
How about the name AAA (Against Alien Apoclypse) there is no such game called this and it would fit the game perfectly.
AAAGAMES creating AAA game? :)
-
I think its a good idea to change the name, maybe some of the developers will start working on a Tremulous 2 one day, maybe. It would be a bummer to make a sequel to your own game and find out that someone else has taken the name for it. On the other hand, don't change the models. Tremulous 2 is open source, so they can't get you for a patent violation (i.e. granger), because it isn't patented.
Name will be changed, that is decided.
They will not make T2. T1 will be dead and because it is online game, unplayable without more players, it will be forgotten.
Models - we currently discussing about them. We are able to create whole new original aliens and it is more interesting for 2D/3D artists to create something new than making something "old". But can't say yet.
-
AAA sounds nice.
1.Tremulous does not have anywhere sleeping big community.
2
You and all other haters should realize few things.
Kickstarter had only 2 % complete - no success anyway.
Try to divide $50 000 (lowered by 10+ % fees etc) between team members for 2 years of work and then tell me how rich we would be.
Try to notice that we wanted to spend 5 % from our profit to other projects and support them.
3
But you (haters and probably developers) only see: "EVIL MONEY!", "HE WANT TO USE NAME TO EARN MONEY"
4
Yes, opensource definitely mean different things. And our game will prove that even closed source game can be more free and open than these "opensource".
1 You might as well say your community is sleeping then, in a way. Or at least explain what you mean.
2 Initial goal does not equal profit. You shouldn't have quit your job [hence your fault]. 5% is considered nothing to most of the community, and of $50 000 that's about $2 500 only. Enough to buy a computer. Yes indeed, this can be useful for an individual but not for a commercial project. Your goal is almost impossible to achieve yet also very low for a commercial project. If you contacted, let's say, Valve and decided to make in on their source engine, maybe you might get some humongous support from them, if it was accepted. By chance, you might even be as successful as TF2 which originally started as a quake mod, if I remember correctly. [TF->TFC->TF2]
3 At glance, yes we do this. I acknowledge your efforts though, especially your 'sacrifices'. You need to make it more apparent that money doesn't matter or just not mention it from the beginning.
4 When you say "free and open," what I've heard from you, the only thing that's changeable are assets, variables and command variables. If you mod a open source project such as tremulous, this is easily achievable. All you need to do is like for example, link whatever you want with a <prefix>_<var name>. You may end with over 50'000 variables though. Assets includes maps, models, sounds etc.
However, you can't do things such as edit the physics, for example, add CPM physics to the game from just variables unless it was implemented initially, however it's possible with a lot of tweaking like the xonotic project did from nexuiz. Nexuiz was just initially a game like quake with added acceleration after you reach your "needed speed limit" where Xonotic added CPM-like physics. They also added command variables to this, and as a result they've duplicated a range of physics from WarSaw to VQ3 to Nexuiz to Q3CPM.
Unless the developer takes action, the community can't do anything about this fact.
You wouldn't have R Funserver CZ without your allowance to mod tremulous, now would you?
-
First off, being critical is completely different from hating. I never hated on your attempt to create a 'Tremulous 2' (in fact, I liked the idea a lot better than Unvanquished), but I did feel that the name was wrong. I'm also fairly certain that none of the actual Tremulous developers hated on you or your project. That would be silly of them anyway.
I read Timbo's reply to your question about the name 'Tremulous' on a public forum that you probably visit regularly too. I'm not sure, but I think it was on the actual Tremulous forum.
It doesn't matter how far along the Kickstarter was, the fact that you tried to make money with 'Tremulous 2' before any kind of agreement was reached with it's original developer(s) is probably what triggered a response. Nobody minds you trying to make money, not even trying to make money with Tremulous (2), but people do mind when you try to make money this way.
I think the problem here is not you trying to resurrect tremulous, make some money or just try follow your heart. The problem is that you are copying an existing game, even when the original developer(s), when asked, told you they did not like the idea of it.
And why do I reply to this thread? I reply to it because at least one person has to give a clear view on this situation, not clouded by anger, disappointment and general hatred towards people who do not deserve it at all. Timbo and DarkLegion are not the 'bad guys' here, no matter how hard you try to make them look like bad guys.
I hope you get over this disappointment and can turn your anger into a positive attitude. This way, you can do better at creating the game you want, free from the shackles of Tremulous. You have my blessing and once you have a new Kickstarter up for your new game, you will recieve some of my money too.
Good luck.
-
Virus:
2) 5 % is not from Kickstarter but from profit = money earned from finished game.
3) Then you should start to doing something with it. Look where is your Trem without money and where is Natural Selection with money.
4) When you will mod trem and sell it, ok. When you will make trem from scratch and sell it, bad. That is what I do not like. It is not about licensing but that "thinking" about freedom. You cannot use assets from free game in commercial and vice versa - if this will be allowed from both sides (free/commercial) what do you think will happen? Someone will take all assets from COD and make his own? Not at all.
Look at many "free" websites, everywhere is "all rights reserved, if you copy something I will kill you". And what "free" trem developers want? If they will create red cube then you can not create red cube anymore. That is your imagination of opensource and freedom...
Opensource "freedom" and "evil money" are maybe reasons why there is so many low quality opensource games or why these games dying. Good for modders when they want to gain experience and change physics.
But I do not think that we have to deal with this anymore. We have different opinions.
-
First off, being critical is completely different from hating. I never hated on your attempt to create a 'Tremulous 2' (in fact, I liked the idea a lot better than Unvanquished), but I did feel that the name was wrong. I'm also fairly certain that none of the actual Tremulous developers hated on you or your project. That would be silly of them anyway.
Personally, if someone would start to creating T2 - I would not care about money, open/closed source, name etc. I would care about the new game, I would want to see it, try it.
And as you see, developers want to this game dead.
I read Timbo's reply to your question about the name 'Tremulous' on a public forum that you probably visit regularly too. I'm not sure, but I think it was on the actual Tremulous forum.
I was not on the form few months, because maybe you will not trust me, but preparing Kickstarter campaign and everything around took few months of work.
It doesn't matter how far along the Kickstarter was, the fact that you tried to make money with 'Tremulous 2' before any kind of agreement was reached with it's original developer(s) is probably what triggered a response. Nobody minds you trying to make money, not even trying to make money with Tremulous (2), but people do mind when you try to make money this way.
That is probably true. I should spend more time to contact him.
I think the problem here is not you trying to resurrect tremulous, make some money or just try follow your heart. The problem is that you are copying an existing game, even when the original developer(s), when asked, told you they did not like the idea of it.
It is good experience that supporting something what I like for years and spending my time and my own evil money for it (servers/posters/plushy/articles/websites/magazine) and then you want to resurrect it will still can means NOTHING at all.
There is only one problem, I loved this game too much - that caused it. I should rather sit on my butt and typing "go code it" onto their forum when someone suggested new feature or "this is shit" when someone something really released.
And why do I reply to this thread? I reply to it because at least one person has to give a clear view on this situation, not clouded by anger, disappointment and general hatred towards people who do not deserve it at all. Timbo and DarkLegion are not the 'bad guys' here, no matter how hard you try to make them look like bad guys.
I dont think I try to make them look bad. I only posting my opinion.
I hope you get over this disappointment and can turn your anger into a positive attitude.
I will.
-
Don't forget to make a good game! :)
-
I'm considering sending this to all newcomers' inboxes, but I won't spam.
For any current or future haters/spammers/trolls/people who want to put down the project (and you know who you are) who want to post: There is no point in trying. All you do is waste your time. Unfortunately, we will read your posts out of curiousity, and you might even get a reply from someone, but it is not like the entire project will be changed based on your open or subtle hints and comments.
If you do not like the project, then leave and support another.
-
I'm considering sending this to all newcomers' inboxes, but I won't spam.
For any current or future haters/spammers/trolls/people who want to put down the project (and you know who you are) who want to post: There is no point in trying. All you do is waste your time. Unfortunately, we will read your posts out of curiousity, and you might even get a reply from someone, but it is not like the entire project will be changed based on your open or subtle hints and comments.
If you do not like the project, then leave and support another.
But, going by your own posts, it's perfectly fine to hate on other projects/people, right?
Take a hike.
-
I'm considering sending this to all newcomers' inboxes, but I won't spam.
For any current or future haters/spammers/trolls/people who want to put down the project (and you know who you are) who want to post: There is no point in trying. All you do is waste your time. Unfortunately, we will read your posts out of curiousity, and you might even get a reply from someone, but it is not like the entire project will be changed based on your open or subtle hints and comments.
If you do not like the project, then leave and support another.
But, going by your own posts, it's perfectly fine to hate on other projects/people, right?
Take a hike.
He said it for every HATER, SPAMMER, TROLL so please read carefully next time.
-
I read Timbo's reply to your question about the name 'Tremulous' on a public forum that you probably visit regularly too. I'm not sure, but I think it was on the actual Tremulous forum.
I went into friendly mode and found you reply that Timbo posted on the Tremulous forums, after replying to you by e-mail and not recieving any reaction.
http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=16997.msg235690#msg235690
-
I'm considering sending this to all newcomers' inboxes, but I won't spam.
For any current or future haters/spammers/trolls/people who want to put down the project (and you know who you are) who want to post: There is no point in trying. All you do is waste your time. Unfortunately, we will read your posts out of curiousity, and you might even get a reply from someone, but it is not like the entire project will be changed based on your open or subtle hints and comments.
If you do not like the project, then leave and support another.
But, going by your own recent posts, it's perfectly fine to not only come from a ban on RCZ but also from tremulous.net forums to question and hate on our project/people, right?
Take a hike.
-
Have you even read my posts here, or what? The only guy who is spreading hate in this thread is you.
-
Have you even read my posts here, or what? The only guy who is spreading hate in this thread is you.
There's me also. Watch pretty carefully Tremulous official forum about T2. There's a topic. Pretty sure you've seen it. So read all of posts again. Analyse them and make a will about who first spread the hate. Please. If you cannot see the truth there, you cannot blame other people here for hating.
-
I can only speak for myself. I have not hated on this project at all. I'm merely a Tremulous lover who sees two groups of complete morons hating on each other. That includes the Tremulous forums as well as these forums. If you think the best answer to hate is more hate, you are making a sorry mistake. Take your hooliganism to the soccer pitch or something.
-
Yeah I have to agree on different opinions. Most modern-day children can't even start to like fast paced shooters and stuck to realism/COD style.
3) Then you should start to doing something with it. Look where is your Trem without money and where is Natural Selection with money.
Natural Selection got official support from Valve. IdTech didn't care about its mods much, except probably the really popular ones CPM and Defrag. However they did support its community in modding.
NS was also supported via money from Valve but not through its community money as much as other commercial games.
I will get this game if it becomes free, but I have a slim chance of buying it if it costs money. Well your opinion.
With money, you can advertise more on websites but then your living costs need to be supported as well. Right now T2's state is really low for a commerical game. I suggest you to get a job then advertise the game using a portion of that money while the rest supports your living expenses. As for the money earnt through the T2 community, well I don't know.
Basically I'm saying it's more beneficial if you get a job (or get your previous one back) and use the money earnt to support this project rather than relying on the community which is pretty much bleak now.
-
I suggest you to get a job then advertise the game using a portion of that money while the rest supports your living expenses. As for the money earnt through the T2 community, well I don't know.
Thanks for your suggestion ;)
Basically I'm saying it's more beneficial if you get a job (or get your previous one back) and use the money earnt to support this project rather than relying on the community which is pretty much bleak now.
You suggesting me what I should do and where I should put my money. Thanks, but I have own plans.
-
It is helpful to suggest how to accomplish something.
It is rude to tell a man what to do with his money and career.
There is a very fine line between the two.
-
It is helpful to suggest how to accomplish something.
It is rude to tell a man what to do with his money and career.
There is a very fine line between the two.
If anything Virus is worried about the well-being of Rotacak.
He just said that he doesn't want Rotacak to have to rely on the community to make a living.
Advice isn't rude, it depends how you take it.
-
That gets me thinking. I'm in the film club at my school, we were talking about what we should make our vid on and we were discussing some of freddiewong's and corridor digital's videos.
Try asking them to make a vid for us, thousands or more may come. They did a really good job on the TF2 video, and I'm sure they're interested in hearing out from game developers.
-
That gets me thinking. I'm in the film club at my school, we were talking about what we should make our vid on and we were discussing some of freddiewong's and corridor digital's videos.
Try asking them to make a vid for us, thousands or more may come. They did a really good job on the TF2 video, and I'm sure they're interested in hearing out from game developers.
There's chance like 0:1000
-
There's chance like 1:1000
Corrected. People requested videos for some games and a fraction of those requests are granted.
-
Here is Timbo's view on this situation: http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=16997.msg236067#msg236067
-
There's chance like 1:1000
Corrected. People requested videos for some games and a fraction of those requests are granted.
Wrong.
-
There's chance like 1:1000
Corrected. People requested videos for some games and a fraction of those requests are granted.
Wrong.
Well if they did they did.
Nothing wrong about it.
Stop being so negative, you scare everyone away.
-
There's chance like 1:1000
Corrected. People requested videos for some games and a fraction of those requests are granted.
Wrong.
Well if they did they did.
Nothing wrong about it.
Stop being so negative, you scare everyone away.
You'll die. Lol jk.
I don't think freddiew and co would try to even contact us if there wouldn't be some financials.
I am just being realistic, sry sry for insultes.
-
I waited quietly for beta versions and you guys write such sad things. I understand both rotack and timbo arguments. You guys should talk seriously about tremulous 2 before making this forum and kickstarter. Therefore I like idea making tremulous game for cash, what else would motivate people to code?
So, me and my polish friends would like to play in the future (not that much as in the past :) ) new trem, just need to inform them. Good luck with the project rotacak.
-
I waited quietly for beta versions and you guys write such sad things. I understand both rotack and timbo arguments. You guys should talk seriously about tremulous 2 before making this forum and kickstarter. Therefore I like idea making tremulous game for cash, what else would motivate people to code?
So, me and my polish friends would like to play in the future (not that much as in the past :) ) new trem, just need to inform them. Good luck with the project rotacak.
eVo comeback :3