Hi Rotacak, hello Trem2 Community.  Since I know most of you will probably recognize who I am, I won't go into introductions right now.   I am definitely very interested in this project, because I love and grew up tremulous, but have not been very impressed with the progress other projects have been making.   Simply put, I am in "Shut up and take my money" mode.  I will definitely be trying this out with my e7 buddies when it becomes available.

Anyways, onto the suggestions.  I apologize if anything listed here is already covered elsewhere in the forums as I have not had the chance to look over everything yet.  Also to note, I am making these suggestions based on the 1.2 GPP version, so just ignore points that are not relevant.

Prophet's wishlist
-Hit-boxes:  Hit boxes in the game should no longer be boxes but reflect exactly what the model looks like.
-Make the luci jump more viable again (Increased knockback, decreased self damage)
-The temporary poison immunity to be reintroduced
-Bring back the hovel with strict entry and exit restrictions to prevent glitching.  The one granger sitting in the hovel will have their build timer count down twice as fast.
-Barricades will now be able to be built on walls and ceilings
-Advance Goons:  Sniping barbs no longer add poison
-Evolving: Aliens can now evolve anywhere within  creep/OM regardless of distance to enemy (Outside creep evolve restrictions remain the same)
-Sudden Death: The armory, medistation, and booster are rebuildable again.  Triple free evo/credit generation to promote rushes.

Other suggestions:
This is a bit out there, but I think it would be need to have a matchmaking system.  Kinda like a scrim finder for teams of 3s, 5s and 7s.  You would be able to queue up and find other teams to play against.  This could really get competitive play going and might even open up other additions like a ladder or a competitive circuit.

That's all I have to say for now, flame away.

Wellcome, you was admin on RCZ servers, right?

-Hit-boxes:  Hit boxes in the game should no longer be boxes but reflect exactly what the model looks like.

Hit-boxes will be exactly like model shape (and that need additional gameplay balancing).

-Make the luci jump more viable again (Increased knockback, decreased self damage)

It will be similar like in 1.1.

-The temporary poison immunity to be reintroduced

?

-Bring back the hovel with strict entry and exit restrictions to prevent glitching.  The one granger sitting in the hovel will have their build timer count down twice as fast.

Hovel will be back, but faster build timer inside is nice idea 

-Barricades will now be able to be built on walls and ceilings

All alien buildables will be able to be built on walls and ceilings.

-Advance Goons:  Sniping barbs no longer add poison

Sure. They adding poison in 1.2?

-Evolving: Aliens can now evolve anywhere within  creep/OM regardless of distance to enemy (Outside creep evolve restrictions remain the same)

Sorry, no. Maybe like option for server owners.

-Sudden Death: The armory, medistation, and booster are rebuildable again.  Triple free evo/credit generation to promote rushes.

Sudden Death should end "unlimited games" and if you will allow to rebuild these important buildings, game can turn into "unlimited" again. So - in default no.

Other suggestions:
This is a bit out there, but I think it would be need to have a matchmaking system.  Kinda like a scrim finder for teams of 3s, 5s and 7s.  You would be able to queue up and find other teams to play against.  This could really get competitive play going and might even open up other additions like a ladder or a competitive circuit.

I am not sure about this feature for this type of game. There is no lobby in this game, so most of players mainly playing long games (30 minutes+). Waiting for fullfill your queue with specified/clan players can be very long.

-The temporary poison immunity to be reintroduced

You can't be poisoned for sometime after respawn (5-10 seconds). I think:P

Sudden Death should end "unlimited games" and if you will allow to rebuild these important buildings, game can turn into "unlimited" again. So - in default no.

If anything -  would be nice to have some faster way to kill gazillions of tubes and hives after certain time from SD has passed. Assuming the vanilla T2 servers will be ubp.

Waiting for fullfill your queue with specified/clan players can be very long.

That's assuming you have 30 people playing on all servers COMBINED (1.2). Now, if we had 200 players in any given moment, having lobby within ONE sever (same rules, different maps, like Rcz running 2 maps simultaneously) could give a choice between joining 20vs19 and 3vs5. OTOH with the same 30 people  in 1.2 seeing "click for porn" or "ready ffs" wasn't uncommon.

Anyway as for LOBBY stuff, the real question is: what does it give us that having 2 server ports doesn't? IMO: not much besides a place to chat.

Gayme, was trying to make a point about sth but I forgot.... :/

About the hit boxes, I'm ok with that for buildings and static stuff, but with moving stuff it's really more fun to have them a bit larger than real size, especially since Trem is hyper-fast at times. I tried high speed games that do perfect hitboxes before, and hitting stuff is considerably more difficult.

The hitboxes go both ways too, remember.

While you will actually have to take aim with a massdriver to hit anything, at the same time the aliens won't be able to just stand in front of you.

I personally think the model-based hitboxes are a good idea... though it takes the traditional QA3 feel away from the game, it also adds it's own level of believability and immersion.

-The temporary poison immunity to be reintroduced

You can't be poisoned for sometime after respawn (5-10 seconds). I think:P

I see.

Sudden Death should end "unlimited games" and if you will allow to rebuild these important buildings, game can turn into "unlimited" again. So - in default no.

If anything -  would be nice to have some faster way to kill gazillions of tubes and hives after certain time from SD has passed. Assuming the vanilla T2 servers will be ubp.

They will not be unlimited, but yes, BP will be increased.

I tried high speed games that do perfect hitboxes before, and hitting stuff is considerably more difficult.

Yes, that is expected problem.

Wellcome, you was admin on RCZ servers, right?

Yup.  That's me.

-Hit-boxes:  Hit boxes in the game should no longer be boxes but reflect exactly what the model looks like.

Hit-boxes will be exactly like model shape (and that need additional gameplay balancing).

Yeah, I can imagine so, either adjust the size of the projectiles or the alien to achieve this.   This alone will probably take quite a bit of testing to balance.  The tenancy in tremulous is that the more skilled both teams are, the stronger humans tend to be, the less skilled both teams are, the strong aliens are.  So not only do you need to balance, but you also need to balance with a suitable group of players.  (average I guess)

By the way, one of the things I really like about tremulous is that you can stand on the edge of a hit box without slipping off, consider keeping that in Tremulous2, it makes for a lot of strategies and generally just makes navigation easier.

-Make the luci jump more viable again (Increased knockback, decreased self damage)

It will be similar like in 1.1.

Good to hear, people like Quake 3 games because like to fly around the map with rocket jumps.

-The temporary poison immunity to be reintroduced

?

Ok, I was really unclear about this.  What I meant is that you give the medikit the temporary poison immunity.  in 1.2 this was removed, and this made the alien strategy post S2 is to literally just suicide poison the humans to stop them from attacking your base.  The bigger the map and farther away human base is from alien base, the more effective this suicide poison tactic works.  I think medikit should have that 10 (or whatever it was in 1.1 I don't remember) second window for the human to fight off the alien without being poisoned to death right after every fight.

-Bring back the hovel with strict entry and exit restrictions to prevent glitching.  The one granger sitting in the hovel will have their build timer count down twice as fast.

Hovel will be back, but faster build timer inside is nice idea 

Shut up and take my money.

-Advance Goons:  Sniping barbs no longer add poison

Sure. They adding poison in 1.2?

Yeah, I think it's pretty stupid how an adv Dragoon won't even fight me sometimes, just snipe me with a poison barb, run back to base, rinse and repeat.

-Sudden Death: The armory, medistation, and booster are rebuildable again.  Triple free evo/credit generation to promote rushes.

Sudden Death should end "unlimited games" and if you will allow to rebuild these important buildings, game can turn into "unlimited" again. So - in default no.

My concern isn't about "ending games."  The problem is that buildables have much different values to humans and aliens.  You kill a booster, sure, it sucks for aliens, but they can still heal and evolve.  (Not to mention the adv basi is a booster) But if you kill an armory, its GG.  The alien's "armory" has ~300 more hp.  But the biggest problem is the medistation.  It literally takes 2 swipes from any alien bigger than a mara to turn the human team in to an assured evo farm.  If the booster is still up, its really GG because you just have to touch them once to get a kill, meaning humans have very little chance in SD.  I can definitely testify to this from personal experience from 1.2  Another thing to note, is that due to the nature of human vs alien base building styles, it is by far easier to fit a second booster than a second medistation, simply because aliens are less reliant on other structures. 

Something to consider, perhaps you find a way to balance SD without rebuildables, but in that case maybe the medistation in particular should be a little harder to kill.  And I never understood how turning of evo/credit regeneration helped SD end games, I feel like if players have more credits and evos, they will be more likely to rush and end the game.

Other suggestions:
This is a bit out there, but I think it would be need to have a matchmaking system.  Kinda like a scrim finder for teams of 3s, 5s and 7s.  You would be able to queue up and find other teams to play against.  This could really get competitive play going and might even open up other additions like a ladder or a competitive circuit.

I am not sure about this feature for this type of game. There is no lobby in this game, so most of players mainly playing long games (30 minutes+). Waiting for fullfill your queue with specified/clan players can be very long.

It depends.  If your game gets really popular, it might be easy to match clans up.  But the way tremulous is now, you're definitely right.  Its really just wishful thinking on my part.

post S2 is to literally just suicide poison the humans to stop them from attacking your base. 

Poison was "upgraded" by devs to counter s2/s3 rushes. At s2 humans get helmet (no headshots) and aliens get poison (sure you get 125cr for every retch, but 3 will kill you anyway). 
Medkit heals around 40-50hp. If you use medkit as a poison immunity, non-idiot players will still use it after bigger hp loss BUT that 10s immunity has to be countered. Non ubp 1.2 was VERY balanced, posion was balanced. Now if Rota plans vehicles, that means bigger maps, that means posion lasts longer on aliens, that means humans will die way before getting to alien base regardless of 10s immunity.

The bigger the map and farther away human base is from alien base, the more effective this suicide poison tactic works.

Distance was always aliens advantage, since they have autoheal and are considerably faster. Humans have long range weapons. Counter.

being poisoned to death right after every fight.

It's a tremducated guess but I think that less than half deaths was due to poison.

Hovel will be back, but faster build timer inside is nice idea 

Tests will tell. I think we could have SOME buildtimes shortened but that hovel idea is bad, for 2 grangers+2 hovels= instantbuild unless you add some bp quee like 1.2.

Yeah, I think it's pretty stupid how an adv Dragoon won't even fight me sometimes, just snipe me with a poison barb, run back to base, rinse and repeat.

Lame nabs, but for some goons that last-out-of-nowhere-regenerated-with-poison-barb was lifesaving against a defending human. Not to mention that this forced camping h to go to medi.

If the booster is still up, its really GG because you just have to touch them once to get a kill, meaning humans have very little chance in SD.

Very true. Non-ubp had 2 boosters often, having 2 medis was rare and not as flexible as booster (booster heals at proximity, medi doesn't, so you can have booster out of sight but not medi)

And I never understood how turning of evo/credit regeneration helped SD end games

Was turned off to force people to attack and not wait behind wall of rets for lucisuit.

I feel like if players have more credits and evos, they will be more likely to rush and end the game.

Good players will always rush to end the game, idiotnabs will camp anyway.

-Advance Goons:  Sniping barbs no longer add poison

Sure. They adding poison in 1.2?

-Sudden Death: The armory, medistation, and booster are rebuildable again.  Triple free evo/credit generation to promote rushes.

Sudden Death should end "unlimited games" and if you will allow to rebuild these important buildings, game can turn into "unlimited" again. So - in default no.

-Adv goons: Wth? They've always delt poison via barb if boosted. The only class that can't deal poison through a certain attack is marauder, and that's the zap. Despite lots of changes frm 1.1 to gpp, in 1.1 it never delt poison anyway. Logically, it's impractical as well.

-SD - Rotacak, i think he meant things like... uhh... hard to say. I'll just post something from the trem.h file from the 1.1 Lolards qvm source:

Code: [Select]


// g_suddenDeathMode settings
#define SDMODE_BP                   ( MEDISTAT_BP + DC_BP + ARMOURY_BP  ) // This is why gpp sudden death sucks, you can't build an armoury. Here, you can build a maximum of one armoury,a reactor and medi, dcc. No repeaters because they are only needed for forward bases.
#define SDMODE_NO_BUILD             0 // 1 for totally out
#define SDMODE_SELECTIVE_ALIENS           0 //2 //i should put '1' but it doesnt work, 0 somewhat only allows rebuilding of structures i allowed which should be as status '1'.I know you can compile qvms, since you already have your funko mod up, so try compiling a quick-qvm with these settings on. You might need to enable which structures are re-buildable via other files before it works.

Actually i think i can explain it now:
->SD sets your bp to '0'
->If a "vital"* structure is killed and is the last one remaining of its kind, it restores its bp [*Excludes spawns otherwise it defeats the purpous of SD]
->If you had no "vital" structures before SD started, you're screwed.

Prophet:
There are two types of collision boxes. First is for bullets (exactly as model shape) and second is for collisions with world and players (that is box, cone, cylinder etc.). We will see how it will be interact with wallwalking and various sizes of aliens.

Poison immunity while medikit is in use is planned.

SD - that is true. But game like this should be little "unbalanced", so humans can use some aliens disadvantages and vice versa. And that unbalancing making the game balanced Humans must build good antisnipe base and aliens anti grenade/luci base. Aliens can snipe medi, and they need good position and time for this. Hunans can nade booster/egg, and they don't need good position and time, only must be quick.

These small disadvantages making game more interesting. And is good, that these disadvantages are different on both sides. Not like booster = medi.

BTW, we tried rebuildable armoury and medi on funserver one time. Humans moved base to plants room. It was very hard to kill arm and medi, but we killed it after few rushes. But they rebuilded it - humans was immortal.

Anyway there is no problem to add such feature as option for server owners.

BTW, we tried rebuildable armoury and medi on funserver one time. Humans moved base to plants room. It was very hard to kill arm and medi, but we killed it after few rushes. But they rebuilded it - humans was immortal.

Me+buddies of mine once implemented this in a server, but it was disastrous. Two tyrants (I was one) suicded past rets and an MD on ATCS just to kill the Armory. -10 evos and 1 minute later, armory was back up. We stopped game and removed it.

Allowing medi and arm to be built after SD is a bad idea.

Hovel will be back, but faster build timer inside is nice idea 

Tests will tell. I think we could have SOME buildtimes shortened but that hovel idea is bad, for 2 grangers+2 hovels= instantbuild unless you add some bp quee like 1.2.

Only 1 hovel can be built for 0 BP.  So only 1 Granger can get their BP timer shortened.  Plus you can only build Hovels at S3, the benefit is quite frankly marginal.  But it would give Grangers a reason to actually jump into a hovel, where as normally in 1.1 I feel safer just hiding in a corner or something than an obvious target like the hovel.

Oh and to clarify, jumping in the hovel won't cut your BP timer in half, it will simply count down the build timer twice as fast, so you'll only get the benefit of half build timer if you spend the whole time in the hovel, meaning only 1 granger can take advantage of this at a time.

BTW, we tried rebuildable armoury and medi on funserver one time. Humans moved base to plants room. It was very hard to kill arm and medi, but we killed it after few rushes. But they rebuilded it - humans was immortal.

Me+buddies of mine once implemented this in a server, but it was disastrous. Two tyrants (I was one) suicded past rets and an MD on ATCS just to kill the Armory. -10 evos and 1 minute later, armory was back up. We stopped game and removed it.

Hm, I don't know about this.  This is most likely an exception to the norm.  I'll tell you if you every play against me in a 1.2 match, you will probably lose at SD if I'm playing aliens.  This especially true if there's an e7 member on skype with me, because the first thing I'll do ~2 seconds before SD starts is charge in your base with a rant and kill your medistation with 1 swipe (The charge will bring it to half)  And if that fails, another alien like a mara or something will come in and zap it once to finish it off.  Basically, you have no hope in defending your medistation if a skilled alien wants it dead. Unless you literally put it in a ridiculously far off spot that makes your medistation less convenient for healing.

I don't have stats, but if you were to look up stats for victories after SD in a non-UBP server, I am almost certain aliens have 70-80% win rate.

BTW, we tried rebuildable armoury and medi on funserver one time. Humans moved base to plants room. It was very hard to kill arm and medi, but we killed it after few rushes. But they rebuilded it - humans was immortal.

The problem was is that you're targeting the wrong thing.  If you're going to suicide rush and there is rebuildable armory and medistation, your target should be nodes or the RC.  Likewise for humans, their target should be eggs and the OM.  This makes it so that taking out the armory/booster/medi is a strategic objective that helps you rush the real objectives, such as the spawns.  As it stands now, taking out either the medistation or the armory, especially both means near certain victory for the alien team.

Yes I agree having a single rebuildable armory/booster/medi can draw out the game slightly longer, but you're going to see those infamous 100 minute games you see in 1.1 if the map is correctly balanced.  In 1.2, the armory and medistation could be rebuildable in SD, and the games would still end really quickly, just because of the accelerated nature of the 1.2 gameplay.

SD - that is true. But game like this should be little "unbalanced", so humans can use some aliens disadvantages and vice versa. And that unbalancing making the game balanced Humans must build good antisnipe base and aliens anti grenade/luci base. Aliens can snipe medi, and they need good position and time for this. Hunans can nade booster/egg, and they don't need good position and time, only must be quick.

This is true, and it really comes down to preferences as the developer, as long as game as whole is balanced, I (as a player) do not mind certain aspects to be unbalanced.

@prophet's modded idea about hovel: This only just occured to me, but this could introduce a lot of bias considering aliens build up faster than humans already [except gpp, because the aliens have 150 bp, not 100]

1. Humans must build good antisnipe base and aliens anti grenade/luci base. Aliens can snipe medi, and they need good position and time for this. Hunans can nade booster/egg, and they don't need good position and time, only must be quick.

2. BTW, we tried rebuildable armoury and medi on funserver one time. Humans moved base to plants room. It was very hard to kill arm and medi, but we killed it after few rushes. But they rebuilded it - humans was immortal.

1. I find pulse rifle more of an anti-alien base threat than luci. Pulse kills the overmind in a merem 85 pulses approximately, which is one clip + 10 bullets for 1.1 games. Aliens do not need a good position to snipe unless in a cramped spot. For example, human defaut, if my fps is decent, i can snipe 3 while dodging humans and pounce back out. It's easy as headchomping nakeds.
Also, humans do need to aim their grenade correctly as well as navigating. I often see noobs attempt grenade rushes only to see a tyrant appear in front of them and the nade bounces and lands in a vacant spot. But i aggree, as a human, it's a whole lot easier killing alien bases than aliens killing human bases. Without aliens around, humans can just shoot off the corners of the bboxes of the alien structures without taking a single damage counter.
2. That's your own fault for having a 999bp server to start. I think the funko mod would do perfectly with just 200 bp max. Also, when you say 'moved', did you mean like.. the whole base including turrets etc.? That's a different story. Medistat + arm, boost are rebuildable on some 1.1 servers because
a) only 100 max bp "isn't enough" [I'd prefer 150 bp for both teams] in 1.1
b) Boost is rebuildable because medistat+arm is rebuildable to counter for this. Booster rewards aliens by a quick charge of poison. Apparently this comes back to us with humans camping on medistats though.

On FunserverCZ however, it takes at least 10 minutes after SD to kill the human base with a player count under 3 per team. FunserverCZ's stack building also introduces new tactics like containers ontop of turrets for anti-tyrant, and also helps absorb a lot of sniping which helps humans "easily" rebuild their medistat. With all these barricades everywhere with your massive bp count, of course they'd seem immortal.